What would you do? - Head or Heart

Maggiemooo

New Member
Sep 1, 2009
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Chelmsford, Essex
Guys, really really need some help and advice and although I don't post often, I always lurk and like the honest opinions on here. This is going to be long.....sorry.

Background - I own a wonderful 18'2 Dutch Warm blood who is now 19. He's had a tough life, competing at top dressage and show jumping around Europe until his previous owner bought him and taught him to be a horse about 8 years ago. He had never been turned out in his life and didn't know that grass was to be eaten.... Anyway, I bought Frank 6 years ago for my now ex-husband and he taught him to ride. Frank is an amazing school master and loves to work. When ex left, Frank stayed with me and although I don't ride him at all as he's just too big for me, I also have my other horse Heathcliff, I have 2 sharers that come 4 or 5 times a week to ride and groom etc. Frank has a pampered life with me, turnout all year, lots of food, grass, hay etc etc..the perfect horses life. However, Frank has his quirks - as they all do, but his major issue is that if he's not in bed by 4pm in the winter, he jumps his paddock fence and generally causes mayhem, and he is a very grumpy old man in his stable....

Anyway, that is the background and now the issue...During the last 6 years, Frank has been lame on and off with various things including suspensory ligament damage, many hoof abscesses, bad back, and most recently a horrid cut to the top of his front leg that required 15 stitches and 6 weeks off work. In the past, he has coped ish with not being worked, but the 6 weeks off this time really really took its toll, he lost loads of condition and was generally miserable until he could work again and then picked right back up.

Now he has gone lame again....been lame for about a week. 1st thoughts were another hoof abscess so have been poulticing it twice a day, and although there was a little discharge on the 1st day, nothing since. There is no heat in his leg, nothing obviously wrong, just lame on the same leg he had the ligament issues. His condition has dropped really badly over the last week and he looks fed up at not being ridden. He is still being turned out as box rest for this man is impossible, 2 days in and he would kick out his stable.

So here is the Head/Heart issue.

Do I spend ££££ (which I don’t have) getting vet out, investigating the cause of this lameness to be told, that's it, retire him...if that happens then the only option is to pts...he would simply not be happy as a field ornament.
or
Let him be for the two week or so, see how he goes? Whilst possibly watch him loss more condition and gradually get unhappier as can't be ridden. Or maybe come back sound for the time being…..
or
Give him another few weeks of the good life whilst weather is mild and settled and then pts whilst he has no pain or suffering.

If he was your baby, what would you do???
 
I would get the vet out and check where it was coming from. It might be something simple and if I put him to sleep I would always wonder what if.

I would probably get X-rays but nothing really expensive like MRIs. It depends on your finances. If they say he has a rotated pedal bone or a fracture or something I would consider putting to sleep. But it might be something much more mild.

Sometimes abscess don't present with heat at the start. It might be worth having it checked anyway.
 
Oh MM, I really don't know what to suggest but I guess I'd be opting for a little bit more time to see how things pan out rather than making any difficult decisions right now. With my own experiences very fresh in my mind maybe its about seeing how he fairs while the weather is still ok. I would suggest the vet for some diagnostic stuff if you think he's going to tell you something different from what you already know about his prior injuries/ problems, but if he's got a history of these things and you're managing it as you would had the vet been or not, then I'd just give it some time, difficult as that might be. (((HUGS)))to the slug.:wink:
 
I would get the vet out, the cause of the lameness might not be as dire as you initially thought? Totally understand suspensory issues, am currently nursing our oldie through yet another set-back with his suspensory ligament, its been going on for 3 years plus now. He's happy to retire though!
Do you know for sure your horse would not like retirement? It's surprising how adaptable they are - could you not just give it a try with him and see how he copes? Always assuming you have company for him - I am lucky because I can keep our pair together, not like Joe is standing alone retired - Storm only get's parted from him once a day for me to ride her!!!
Good luck whatever - hope it isn't as bad as you thought.
 
What a horrible situation for you. I think I would be inclined to have the vet out once more and discuss with them. Thats if you have a good equine vet who you trust?

Only you can know him well enough to make the final decision, but I do feel that the feeling of not being sure very rapidly turns to being convinced that PTS is the only option. If you know them well enough, which Im sure you do, you will know in your heart when he has had enough.

Whatever the outcome you will make the right decision for him and for you.:twins:
 
"Is he insured? "

He is insured, but not on this leg....

"Do you know for sure your horse would not like retirement?"

I'm fairly certain... the 6 week break in the summer was very very hard on him, he started box walking, crib biting, and generally being a stress head. I have 3 other horses at the yard, so not an issue of company, it's more his quality of life that worries me.


"I guess I'd be opting for a little bit more time to see how things pan out rather than making any difficult decisions right now"

That is my gut feeling at the moment - but I just can't bear to see him unhappy....or in pain (although I am fairly sure he's not as happy to gallop flat out down the field for his dinner!!!)
 
That is my gut feeling at the moment - but I just can't bear to see him unhappy....or in pain (although I am fairly sure he's not as happy to gallop flat out down the field for his dinner!!!)[/QUOTE]

I was just going to say neither head or heart - I go with gut everytime!

I take it as read you have done everything right for him so far - I suspect that won't change, if he starts to deteriorate rather than see any positive improvement then get the Vet - as others say you need to know what the full picture is before you can make any sort of decision for the future.
Have you given him a tonic of any sort, suprising how depressed they can get and take some time to get out of it, can also manifest itself in unexplained lameness - healthy gut does a lot for the rest of the system, my little man can get morbid very quickly and he looks a total wreck if I don't get on top of him - usually if he has to be seperated or confined away from the others.

hope things improve soon for you both, not helpful with Winter coming on is it.........
 
That is my gut feeling at the moment - but I just can't bear to see him unhappy....or in pain (although I am fairly sure he's not as happy to gallop flat out down the field for his dinner!!!)

I was just going to say neither head or heart - I go with gut everytime!

Thanks Lemme...this is exactly where I am....Gut....and it's not a happy one at the moment :frown:

What sort of Tonic do you give your little man??

Think I shall give it a few more days and watch him closely, both in field and stable and see if we can't work out what's going on. Will get some No Bute tomorrow to see if it can knock the end of the potential pain (not that he's showing any pain signs!)

Any other suggestions, comments, are welcome. please,
 
Sorry that your old boy's not great atm, if it were me then i'd be inclined to get the vet to give him the once over and go from there. You're right, not all horses are cut out to retire to grass/stable totally depends on the horse.

If it is his time, then at least you'll know that you did everything you could have for him and that he's had a great 8 years with you. Not all horses are that lucky
 
In going through a similair issue with my old boy. He ruptured 1 tendon and strained the other on both front legs. Such a shame for him as he had done a 13 mile pleasure ride that day and was happy as larry. he fell in the filed in the evening chasing 'his' maers and thatwas that really. He has gradually come sound but has been on box rest since 15 may when he injured himself. I am at the walking in hand stage and he seems happy enough if very very bored. my fear for my boy is that the tendon still goes warm and puffy on and off so I might be putting him througha lot only to end up having him pts when he goes out if it re-ruptures so it might be better pts now whilst he is still happy in himslef. its so hard making these choices for our belvoed horses isnt it?
 
brychens mum - your story sounds so familiar - we are at the walking in hand stage with our Joe (he damaged his suspensory years ago but it flared up and then he damaged the surrounding tendon and the whole thing is a mess now). He's due to be scanned again soon, but like you, tis a constant worry that when we get to the turning out stage (in a small paddock) he's going to re-injure it and all the box rest will have been for nothing. It is so hard to know what to do for the best. OH and have decided we are going to continue to see how it goes, he's so happy in himself and does not seem to mind the box rest at all (he spent his entire life in a stable before we bought him more or less).
Sorry to hi-jack the thread btw. Do hope the original poster comes to a decision - lots of good vibes to them.
 
In going through a similair issue with my old boy. He ruptured 1 tendon and strained the other on both front legs. Such a shame for him as he had done a 13 mile pleasure ride that day and was happy as larry. he fell in the filed in the evening chasing 'his' maers and thatwas that really. He has gradually come sound but has been on box rest since 15 may when he injured himself. I am at the walking in hand stage and he seems happy enough if very very bored. my fear for my boy is that the tendon still goes warm and puffy on and off so I might be putting him througha lot only to end up having him pts when he goes out if it re-ruptures so it might be better pts now whilst he is still happy in himslef. its so hard making these choices for our belvoed horses isnt it?

I think something like this could have happened to Frank as often the herd have a free for all and he could easily slipped over....

Good luck with your boy, I hope the out come is positive and he continues to recover.

And yes, it's the hard choice I've ever had to make....hence asking for advice and feelings on here...some very sensible heads and comments.
 
I would get the vet out to find out what the issue is, it could be something serious or it might be something and nothing (for instance he could be treated with half a 'bute a day).

In regards to 'retirement' when he had time off over the summer, did you do anything with him? Just because he's retried doesn't mean he should do nothing other than eat and sleep, maybe a light hack in walk once a week, some in hand work, clicker train him, teach him some tricks. All stuff to keep his brain active (just as you would an elderly human in a nursing home). He needs to keep his brain active and turnout will take care of the body.
 
my gut, head and heart all say that in this case I would get the vet for an opinion, but if it was anything major I would consider PTS rather than keeping grumpy, underwieght horse limping (metaphorically as well as literally) through the winter.

I nearly fell out with my best friend because her ancient, arthritic skinny horse was looking so miserable and fed up in retirement, but her parents (who had him with them) couldn't face the the thought of PTS.

If quality of life is gone, and the horse is miserable, then I think PTS is more dignified (and yes, I hope I can be PTS myself when the time comes! )
 
my gut, head and heart all say that in this case I would get the vet for an opinion, but if it was anything major I would consider PTS rather than keeping grumpy, underwieght horse limping (metaphorically as well as literally) through the winter.

I nearly fell out with my best friend because her ancient, arthritic skinny horse was looking so miserable and fed up in retirement, but her parents (who had him with them) couldn't face the the thought of PTS.

If quality of life is gone, and the horse is miserable, then I think PTS is more dignified (and yes, I hope I can be PTS myself when the time comes! )

Totally agree with all you have written...

And the update......

Had booked the vet to come this weds to give him a once over, was looking less and less lame so put it down to a kick on the butt but wanted him checked to be sure...and then..

7.30 am yesterday - Came out of his stable hopping lame yesterday morning and I mean hopping, could hardly bear to stand on it even to come out of stable....PANIC... Called vet (and luckily it was my normal vet on call) who promised to be with by 9. Hock very swollen, leg quite warm so Cold hosed it for 20 mins and put him back in stable where he was soo soo quiet and in pain. 2 of my liveries were going eventing, but as they were soo soo worried for Frank, they waited around with me for the vet. Bless them as I was in pieces.

Anyway - Vet arrives, we pull (and I do mean pull) Frank out of stable..vet takes one look at him and says "Hoof Abscess".. get's Frank sedated and digs and digs and all of a sudden bang - hits the abscess and pus pouring out....not nice but my god it had tracked round the wall of the hoof from the very front half way up the side.....

Anyway, bowl of warm water, idodine, and hoof in water, immediately hoof went down and stayed down...You could see the relief in his face, even though he was zzz by sedation.

So...All of us now in tears as we were totally totally convinced he had ruptured his tendon and we were so so relieved.

So Frank now poulticed up, out in field with his herd, a very happy boy and will be ridden by the weekend...

So for all my doom and gloom, He's fine!

Prayers do work....

Thanks for all your advice... and you were all right!!!

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
 
Brilliant result. I retired my mare 3 years ago after the diagnosis of navicular. She hated it, I hated it. It took us at least a year BOTH of us to come to terms with it. Now a long rein hack around the yard is a treat, she enjoys it as much as I do. She lives out. She is a total herd leader and rules with a glare and a nod. My husband also retired 3 years ago. He also has struggled to come to terms with the change.
 
I'm so glad to hear it was good news. :smile: The torture we sometimes put ourselves through with what ifs! Poor Frank must be feeling so much better now, and I hope he's soon back to his normal self.
 
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